An interesting question was raised during a small group outing our ministry hosted this past weekend. One the guys in our group mentioned that he viewed women in our ministry as sisters and would never consider dating any of them. Of course the young man’s statement sparked an immediate response from one of the young ladies in our group as she swiftly responded “Why?” I quickly supported his claim by interjecting that if the relationship doesn’t work out, then the man subjects himself to being blackballed within the group. This seems to be the unspoken theory for men in churches, workplace environments and other organizations.
Workplace topic of the week…
Would you date someone in your inner circle (church, workplace, networking groups, etc.) even if it risked being blackballed from dealing with others in the same circle? Why or why not?
Does the answer to the above question differ for men and women?
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- Kenny Pugh (aka KP)
- Often referred to as 'The Relationship Expert,' I have years of experience analyzing, counseling and advising hundreds of people on all types of relationship issues. As a member of Kappa Alpha Psi fraternity and former athlete, I had experiences with women of all different “flavors” (e.g., younger, older, wealthy, conservative, educated and hustlers) so I’m familiar with most games that men and women play with one another. I’m a converted player who made a life out of participating and manipulating various women all across the country. I’ve also witnessed the seduction and exploitation of women of all walks of life. Originally from Dayton, OH, I graduated from The Ohio State University and now currently reside in Atlanta, Georgia. Join me as I examine some of the challenges people encounter in the 21st century.
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9 comments:
Good morning KP!
I first want to express my "excitment" from this past weekend. Being new to the Image Ministry, I absolutely had a ball! I sat next to two women from EBC: told one my life story (LOL) and the other being a seasoned women listened to with the upmost respect! Since my social life has "literally" been stagnant for the past two years during my separation prior to divorce, I just really enjoyed me!!!
These are great questions......As for dating, a woman like myself who chooses not to date but rather "socialize" with their inner circle has the ability to make observations about the men around her. Just observations....The reality for me is that even though I may feel that I would like to get to know a man on a deeper level, I CAN'T take the lead because not only is that the man's responsiblity, but he may not be FEELING me like that :). The next statement, biblically, is only for a man. If you KNOW in your heart that God gifted you with a woman in that "inner circle", regardless of who you have dated in the past, it shouldn't matter if you are blackballed or not. It makes me wonder if that man is placing himself in the "Stunted Growth" category! And I quote.....
"Once you are truly connected to the Lord, He will extend to you the petitions of your heart. There is something beautiful about being connected to the Lord and Him blessing you with the fruit of your dreams and desires. Keep your head up and realize that NO PERSON should be able to detour you from living life to its fullest. Get rid of ‘Stunted Growth’ so the rest of your life can become the best of your life."
I think man AND women have a slight fear of being rejected..... just my opinion!
I agree that rejection plays a part in the hesitance of men and women to approach one another. I agree and am also a big fan of simple observation when it comes to evaluating a person's character and behavior.
Back on topic...
I've seen many of my brothers mess up situations because they lacked the patience to observe the landscape. Their impatience forfeited their ability to assess who may be most appropriate for them to pursue. It is confusing and frustrating, especially in a church environment, to see a group of potential quality women and pick the one who was not meant for you. What does a man do then? Go back to the group who all have knowledge of each other and pick another one? That scenario happens more often than we may want to admit and makes for an uncomfortable environment for those who aren't spiritually mature.
Women may face similar challenges, but I'm not intimately familiar with a scenario that I can speak to. In limited exposure, I have seen it be much easier for a woman to date multiple men within a certain circle than for a man to date multiple women within a certain circle.
Typically, a woman only blackballs herself if she sleeps with a man before making a decision to move on. Otherwise, her integrity and options remain open! I can't really say the same for men.
KP....excellent. I DO see your point and it is well taken.
Spiritual maturity absolutely plays a big part in the dating scene. I guess that men should do more observing "past" the physical. What do I mean? Here is a good one.......When I was leaving the game this past Saturday with Ms. Rose, a guy made a comment to me but was looking directly at my backside and thought that would interest me. I "politely" and with a smile said, "Now, I represent Christ and I hope you will learn to also". His whole demeanor changed and He even said he would go to church in the morning!!!
Now I'm not stating that ALL men observe only the physical, but unfortunately this is the norm. Look deeper....talk with the person...find out their interests and so forth. A man should ask himself, Will I holler at a sista that my boy hollered at a few months ago? I don't know....that's a guy thang :). Maybe the guys who find this sort of thing challenging should keep the "brother/sister" relationship in their inner circle and seek relationships in other areas.
Since I "absolutely" did not and will not ever date multiple men, I can't comment on that one...only my own personal journey. I must first embrace my "singleness" which I am certainly content with and allow God to do the rest.
You are correct in a woman blackballing herself.....I saw TOO much of this in college and witness it in some of my friends today. This is where "Woman Have All the Power" would suffice..... The only blackballing I meant from a man's standpoint is one who is in line with the Lord and honest enough to accept his gift IF she is in the inner circle. I've seen this at my previous congregation and knew the guy who "would not" receive his gift because of a previous relationship with another girl in our group.....It's all so strange but yet so real.....
-I'll begin with saying what a wonderful topic for a blog today!
I think that meeting someone in church, conversing and getting to know this person's personality and character traits on first a general fellowship/group basis would be best. I also do believe if you choose to do it on a one on one basis is a very private matter, but for one to say that he/she would not want to get to know a person in church on the sole basis of the influence of others to me would indicate their growth or lack thereof. If you both are able to be mature adults and keep it between the two of you, it shouldn't be an issue to get to know someone on a friendship basis first (this definitely doesn't mean SLEEPING with that person.) Usually for me that determines whether I will even proceed to the next level of "one on one dating". So, you should be able to get to know someone without having to let the entire church know thus being "blackballed" by your peers.
I applaud the young man's honesty (especially considering the environment) :)
But we as women have the same reservations. We tend to overcome them however with a willingness to be vulnerable, to assume the risks involved and for the ultimate reward of unconditional love.
It's ironic that the men in these so called communities wouldn't dare date from within but the women in these same communities have limited themselves to ONLY date from this small pool of seemingly likeminded individuals.
I'm left wondering, "if not us then who are you trying to date?"
* I came back under my gmail user id because I did not want to show as anonymous. LOL ; )
I agree with what my_myk said "I'm left wondering, if not us then who are you trying to date?"
Now, regarding women dating within this small pool. EBC has thousands of members and I think when I do begin to want to get to know a gentleman at EBC, I would not limit myself to only EBC members, there are plenty of good Christian men that attend other churches. I feel I would be doing myself an injustice by not giving myself a chance to date a man in our congregation. If God presented this man, for me. Who am I to say NO Lord "because if it doesn't work out then I have to worry about my peers opinions of dating that person or choosing to not date me because of that person." That is not an option for me.
Again, I refer back to keeping it a private matter, this way no one would have an opinion about something if they weren't aware of what was going on.
This is one of the reasons why so many Christians today are not coming together in Godly relationship. MANY men in the church are looking around, checking out the available sisters in church. They either entertain a woman (or women) as if he is interested in her and move on to the next if that particular sister steps outside of his box, or they just view the women in church like "sisters". So the frustration of many women in the church mounts, many lose heart and turn to the man in the world who is proactive in pursuing relationship. Before you whip out the butcher knives, not all of the men in the world are straight up heathens, and on a few occasions I've seen women marry good men in the world that eventually found Christ. I don't recommend a woman purposefully running out and looking for an unsaved man because those were individual situations where God was working behind the scenes on the strength!(LOL) So, where does that leave a woman in the church today? I'm sure quite a few folks will think this is not a good answer, but it's the answer the Lord gave me for my personal path......Trust God and look to Him. He knows our desires and He knows the hearts of every man and woman on the face of the earth. I've been there where I was attracted to a man in my church and from his actions I thought he was interested in me as well. After all he approached me! I gave him the "Flava-Flav Wooooww when he stopped calling, acted funny towards me in church, AND I learned that he was playing the same game with other women in the church. Thank God for His protection! As time passed and I remained open to God, He showed me why THAT man should remain alone or at least not be with me. It gets frustrating, I mean come on I have been dating myself and hanging with my girls for a LOOOONG time! (LOL) Nevertheless, I'm at a point in my spiritual walk that I have surrendered that part of my life to Him and I have to trust that He will give me what I need and satisfy the longing. Blackballed? Nah, that's not it. Instead sisters, we are CONSECRATED, set apart for His purpose and His glory. God will not allow just anyone in our lives because He knows the treasure He's placed inside this earthen vessel. If a man is not for you, he's not for you. Same for the men...if she's not for you, she's not for you. Seems like the harder we try to make the connect, the more frustrated we become, the more questions we have, and we stay on the round robin about relationships. Hate to use Christian cliche but just let go and let God.
I agree that two grown adults should be able to operate in a discrete and private manner in order to assess whether something deeper should be pursued. Unfortunately, the church has been known to play host men and women with some of the loosest lips :).
I encourage inner-congregational dating because you have a better point of reference to assess their behavior. Plus, you are under the same pastoral teaching.
At EBC, men will approach women all day everyday. It's the men with a desire to get it right who will typically do more watching prior to pursuing. Relationships are like fine wine, they can't be rushed!
On another note, men are hesitant to date inside their church because of previous experiences. I've heard of situations where a simple cup of coffee was misinterpreted for something deeper. Imagine that...LOL!
i agree that sometimes when you are in the church setting that it seems like um pressure to come together for the simple fact that hey you're single, i'm single, let's not be single anymore! lol. on the other hand, i do believe that church working side by side is exactly the scenario God has in mind...after a bit of observation. i am a firm believer that God wants relationships to grow out of deep friendships. deep friendships happen after two people serve together whether it's in ministry or in the same church or in God's kingdom at large. God wants a man to be able to watch a woman and see her qualities from all angles, working with others, working with him and how she is in her relationship with God. i think these things are most easily observable when you are in close proximity with another. after a friendship (and i mean a real friendship not just trying to get at someone) but after a real friendship has come about in which both people are looking outwardly at God and how to serve God, then God can change their hearts to become introspective in their relationship and their focus can be on each other and voila~ c'est amour!
one should never limit God from doing what it is He is seeking to do in his/ her life. if God can do far more than we can dream or imagine...He can certainly bring together two people in the same locale. :)
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